I did P90X my first time through based on the Classic program and I succeed with a net loss of 23 lbs, and a total loss of 15 inches. It was a good result to me. (Went from 209 -> 186, and most of the inches were off my waist. 7" to be exact!)

I took a break since I moved, and unfortunately gained some of it back. I am back up to 195. However, I am not quite sure where that weight came from since I am still able to push my numbers HIGHER than I did in the previous cycle, and still goin strong.

I have actually been running doubles this time around and love every minute of it. This time around, I am not following the P90X diet plan since it was a pain in the butt to follow with my fiance not on the diet. We are eating "well" just not down to every single ratio planned out.

My question is....how few calories can you consume before you actually start to "hurt" yourself? In the first cycle, if I didn't eat before plyo or legs/back I would bonk out pretty quickly. Well, I mean eat 2-3 hours before it.

In this phase and doing doubles on top of it, I don't seem to need to really keep my calories up to keep my energy up. It is actually quite strange to me. I can consume maybe 1500-2000 calories a day while doing doubles and still feel like I am the energizer bunny. (my plan according to the P90X diet guide has me eating 3000 calories, or atleast it did last cycle.)

Using the calorie calculators, and the amount my heartrate monitor has me burning every workout, I am burning something like 2800 calories a day. I am only consuming maybe 1500-1700. While I have heard having any deficit greater than maybe 500 is bad, HOW bad is it? Am I just shooting myself in the foot for not eating as much?

I don't have calipers but I believe my BF% is maybe 22%, so I have some work to do, but I am definately not out of shape. (I have been doing plyo/abripper unmodified for quite some time.)

My ultimate goal right now is to just tone up. My arms/legs are already quite large, so I don't need as much muscle building as I want more "lean muscle" gain.

With the calories I am consuming versus burning, am I just burning off muscle mass instead of fat?

I have been studying this subject a lot lately. I mean a lot. Probably reading on it 5 to 6 hrs a day for the past week. I am in a similar boat and I was sure I went to low on my calories. Well comes to find out. That is almost impossible to do. As long as you continue to work hard and keep yourself well fed. Like a good amount of protein 1g per LBM. Your body will avoid burning that muscle..

It will go for the excess fat. Now the leaner you get and the more you lower your body fat % the harder this becomes. So this is a good time if you hit a plateau to up your calories SLIGHTLY. Not a lot but for your size probably around 200-250 calories per day. Do this for a few days and see how your energy level is..

Also with doing doubles remember you need to add another 5-600 caloires on your total intake. I would say 15-1700 for your size doing doubles is a bit low. That leaves too much of a calorie deficit. When doing doubles you might want to try and hit 2k minimum and that's on the low side. The longer you keep this up the lower your metabolism will fall which is a bad thing..

Try and up your calorie intake as soon as you feel comfortable. Still going at around a 2-250 increase each day or every other day so you get used to the extra food.

Good luck man and hope it works out..

Bear

Thats the problem.

My energy level IS fine, which is confusing to me. I would assume when the diet has me eating 3k a day for Classic, and I am only eating 1500-1700 for DOUBLES, that I would have issues with bonking/crashing.

The problem again, is that my energy is actually higher now than it ever has been in the past. I don't know if it is just that I feel better about myself now and I am pumped for my workouts, or what, but even my fiance is confused as to how energized I am to workout.

So while I guess it doesn't feel like a problem being completely energized for a workout, it goes against my intuition of calorie intake vs burning. I also think it is too big of a deficit, but if my energy level is perfectly fine, if not better than before, is there a downside to going like I am?

Tom,

I also have been reading, studying and researching. I think different things as luckybear has though. Not better or worse, just different things I suspect.

There are two posts about proper caloric intake for fat loss in the nutrition section. Read those and see what you think.

Then....if that doesn't tickle your fancy you could also try carb. cycling to get your body to burn body fat again.

I assume you stick to a particular diet, if you don't...you should. Let's say you are consuming 250 grams of carbs a day right now.

decrease it 40% for 3-5 days. The length of time (3-5 days) you can play with. Then increase your carbs 15% above your normal intake for a day.

repeat this process as long as necessary. As long as your body fat is dropping, it's working.

so....250 - 40%= 150 grams of carbs for 3-5 days and then 250 + 15% = 287.5 grams of carbs for 1 day.

after 3-5 days at lower carbs. your glycogen in your muscles fall (sugar in your muscles). When you go on your higher intake day...the carbs will fill up your glycogen stores FIRST before any glucose is stored away as body fat. You will also generate body heat from this high carb day, which is magnified.

This cycling encourages and promotes fat loss in the body for 3-5 days, promotes heat loss, revs up your metabolism and you will go into your lower carb days with a higher metabolism with less carb intake, thus....burning body fat.

The high percentage on your high carb day is actually lower because your body burns roughly 20% through heat production. So the actual amount you will consume on this day will be lower than what you are actually eating.

PLUS a single higher day is actually insufficient to saturate glycogen stores (in your muscles) so you return to your 3-5 days of lower carbs which deplete your glycogen stores more rapidly which encourages fat loss.

The high carb day will off set any metabolic slow down on the lower carb days.

This also improves your IGF-1 levels...which basically builds more muscle for you, at the very least...helps save your muscle.

This cycling also helps upgrade the insulin receptor sites on your muscles which helps your body store carbs as glycogen rather than as fat.

One important thing is to have layed down a foundational diet though. One that you have stuck with for at least 6 weeks so far before doing anything.

This is only my opinion. Feel free to research what I've told you to make sure it's right.

I've not put this into practice yet because I've just begun my new diet and I'm not at this point yet, but from everything else I've read on blood sugar and insulin and such...it seems pretty sound to me.

if you are not gaining nor losing weight then you know what your carb threshold is, which is a good thing. Try the cycling first for at least 2-3 weeks. Then, if that isn't working for you, you can cut 10-15% of your calories from your carbs (if your diet only contains 10-20% fat calories). When you start to plateau...do the cycling thing.

hurting yourself by cutting calories and not losing body fat by cutting calories are two different things.

Find your lean body weight. (total weight minus body fat). Say your lean body weight is 125 lbs. 10 times this amount is what your body needs to function...so 1250 calories. Add your activity level into the mix and this is what you need to maintain your current weight.

losing weight and losing body fat are two entirely different things. You can easily lose weight by cutting calories. More than likely you will lose muscle mass and water before body fat.

Find your Lean body weight, your activity level, then determine your caloric needs. you want a minimum of 1 gram of protein per lean body weight. Make sure you have this. Subtract your percentage of fat calories 10-20%, subtract your protein needs ( recommend 1.15 x lean body weight) and you have your carb calories left.

1 gram of protein and carbs is 4 calories each. 1 gram of fat is 9 calories. Spread them out over the course of the day....taper off your carbs towards your bedtime as it will effect your GH levels.


Again...this is just one of many diet opinions I've read about. It may not even work for you. Every person's body is different.

Hope it helps.

rodney126 wrote:


This is the main purpose of my post.

I don't care about my weight really, but moreso my body fat %.

I guess I should just purposely eat MORE food and see how it goes. It just always seems like one of those counter-intuitive things to do. Eating more to lose weight?

I still don't really know what is happening though. While I could be burning off my muscle mass, I am consistently pushing my numbers in all muscle routines.

First time through P90X, I was doing all push-ups from my knees, and all pull-ups from a chair. Second cycle in doubles I started doing everything legit starting with maybe 4 real pushups through the entire set, and 2 pullups through the entire set.

Now I am up to 8 pushes through it all, and 7 pulls through the set. Going from not being able to do a single pullup, to doing over 50? So my muscles are getting bigger, but maybe just not as quickly as if I was eating better?

the only way to be certain is to know your body fat percentage and your lean muscle mass and see over the weeks if those change. Those will tell you what's happening in your body.

I explained how eating more to lose body fat is actually biologically sound, if done correctly. My part 1 and part 2 posts of proper caloric intake, plus what I've said about carb cycling (which is actually part 3) should give you plenty of information to digest.

As far as feedback on your body fat, you will have to keep track of that and your lean body weight. If your body fat stays the same...you aren't doing anything wrong, but nothing right either.

If you have anymore questions after reading those other two posts, let me know and I'll be glad to try to help.