Hey guys I ran by a calculated method of how to determine how much Protein you "suppose" to intake during your daily diet. Heres the link..
http://www.musclehack.com/how-much-protein-is-needed-to-build-muscle/

My personal numbers are 212.63, Seems alil high, its about my own body weight.......does that sound right and if so I imagine 2 protein shakes a day has to be ideal. If so a 3rd one post workout (which Im still not sure if I should go protein shake or apparently Chocolate milk from what I keep reading on the threads as a recovery drink). Just wondering if anyone knows if these numbers add up and in case someone needed help determining the same factor...

My room mate is a trainer and he has always gone with the 1g per 1lb method. So, if you weigh 210, then you should be taking in 210g of protein. I'm 150, but taking in 175 - 200g of protein, only because I want to gain weight. I'm also doing a mix of explosion weights and steady bands to build muscle mass, and lean out the body at the same time.

There have been posts on this all over the forum.

The correct amount of protein is 1.2-1.5 grams per kilogram of lean body weight per day.

To calculate you kg of lean body weight, take your lean weight in pounds (you'll need to get this measured) and divide it by 2.2 to convert to kg.

Taking in more than 1.5 grams/kg per day will risk kidney damage. A life spent on dialysis isn't worth the risk!

And that's a medical opinion, supported by three registered dieticians and a whole bunch of medical research.

You've been properly advised!

Kevin

so, how do i get my lean weight calculated/measured.

The most accurate method is submersion in water. Since fat floats, your weight underwater is your lean body weight. Many places offer this for a reasonable fee. You might check in with your local fitness center or hospital to see if the service is offered.

The most commonly used method is impedance. A small electrical current (don't worry, you won't feel a thing!) is passed through your body and the resistance encountered roughly correlates to body fat. There are electronic scales that offer this feature. Be sure to read the manual, as there are several things that can interfere with a proper reading. It isn't as accurate as the submersion method, but it can be done at home and you can use it as a tool to follow your success.

Hope this helps...

Kevin

Kevin wrote:

QUOTE:


Taking in more than 1.5 grams/kg per day will risk kidney damage. A life spent on dialysis isn't worth the risk!

And that's a medical opinion, supported by three registered dieticians and a whole bunch of medical research.

You've been properly advised!

Kevin -

I've entered several of the suggested meals from the P90X Meal Plan Approach (all level II) into the diet tracking tool on livestrong.com and they all top out well over 200g of protein. Even the meals I put together myself from today totaled 206g of protein according to that site.

Why would Beachbody create meals with that much protein if this was such a serious issue? I'm not making light of your previous statement, just trying to figure this out.

Doug

I haven't read all the research articles on high protein intake in detail, but my understanding was that the risk of kidney damage was only significant to those with preexisting kidney problems and that the effect on a healthy person's kidneys was negligible.

Kevin, do you have any more details/links to the research you're referring to? If healthy individuals risked kidney damage with high protein intake, wouldn't we see a huge incidence of renal problems in body builders and other athletes?

Thanks for the posts, guys. I appreciate the questions and hope this post will answer them.

Here's some data from online references...

Protein Requirements
Healthy persons with normal renal function need 0.8 g of protein per kilogram of body weight per day, but illness and injury can dramatically increase protein needs. For example, postoperative patients need 1.0–1.5 g/kg/d. Sepsis increases protein needs to 1.2–1.5 g/kg/d. Daily protein intake for patients with multiple trauma should fall within 1.3–1.7 g/kg, and burn victims may need 1.8–2.5 g/kg/d. With the exception of patients with burn injuries, guidelines set the upper limit for protein intake at 2.0 g/kg/d. Research suggests that doses of protein above this level exceed the patient's utilization capacity and can lead to azotemia. As with energy intake, protein intake for obese patients should be based on ABW.
Protein needs for children vary with age. The requirement is greatest in the first year of life and then gradually declines. Healthy infants need 2–3 g/kg/d, and children up to age 10 need 1.0–1.2 g/kg/d. The protein requirement of critically ill children is approximately 1.5 g/kg/d."

--Clinicians Pocket Reference, McGraw Hill online 2009.

The continual catabolism of tissue proteins creates the requirement for dietary protein, even in an adult who is not growing; although some of the amino acids released can be reutilized, much is used for gluconeogenesis in the fasting state. Nitrogen balance studies show that the average daily requirement is 0.66 g of protein/kg body weight (0.825 allowing for individual variation), approximately 55 g/day, or 0.825% of energy intake. Average intakes of protein in developed countries are of the order of 80–100 g/day, ie, 14–15% of energy intake. Because growing children are increasing the protein in the body, they have a proportionally greater requirement than adults and should be in positive nitrogen balance. Even so, the need is relatively small compared with the requirement for protein turnover. In some countries, protein intake is inadequate to meet these requirements, resulting in stunting of growth.

--Bender DA, Mayes PA, Harper’s Illustrated Biochemistry, Chapter 43: Nutrition, Digestion, and Absorption, Online Resource 2009.

MECHANISM OF PROTEIN-INDUCED HYPERFILTRATION
The mechanism by which dietary protein or amino acids affect renal hemodynamics is not completely understood. Two major theories have been proposed, including the altered release of a hormone or hormones and an intrarenal effect involving sodium reabsorption and/or tubuloglomerular feedback [6,7].
Hormonal effects — Enhanced secretion of glucagons, a direct renal vasodilator, may be a mediator of protein-induced hyperfiltration [6,7]. A high protein diet also increases the release of at least two other hormones that can raise the GFR, including insulin-like growth factor I (IGF-I) and kinins [10,11]. IGF-1 is a direct renal vasodilator that can increase both renal blood flow and the GFR [10]. In addition to a possible role in protein-induced hyperfiltration, IGF-1 may play an important role in the hyperfiltration and glomerular hypertrophy observed in type 1 diabetes mellitus.
The renin-angiotensin system may also modulate the effect of protein on glomerular filtration. Angiotensin II leads to a preferential increase in efferent arteriolar resistance, causing an increase in intraglomerular pressure and hyperfiltration. Lowering angiotensin II production induces efferent dilatation, which decreases intraglomerular pressure and perhaps the GFR. However, there are conflicting data on the effect of a low protein diet on renal renin release. Both a reduction in renin gene expression (which could contribute to the protective effect of a low protein diet in renal disease) and an increase in gene expression have been described [6,12]. (See "Antihypertensive therapy and progression of nondiabetic chronic kidney disease" for a review of the potential beneficial effects of angiotensin converting enzyme inhibitors).
Intrarenal effects — Intrarenal mechanisms, including tubuloglomerular feedback, may contribute to protein-induced hyperfiltration [6,7]. An increase in the filtered load of amino acids may enhance proximal sodium reabsorption via sodium-amino acid cotransporters in the proximal tubule. The ensuing decrease in sodium chloride delivery to the macula densa may then activate tubuloglomerular feedback, leading to an elevation in GFR in an appropriate attempt to restore macula densa delivery to normal. (See "Chapter 2D: Regulation of GFR and renal plasma flow", section on Tubuloglomerular feedback).
Other effects — Protein restriction also limits phosphorus intake, which may contribute to a beneficial effect on disease progression.

References:
6. Woods, LL. Mechanisms of renal hemodynamic regulation in response to protein feeding. Kidney Int 1993; 44:659.
7. King AJ; Levey AS; J Am Soc Nephrol 1993 May;3(11):1723-37

From: Singh AJ, et al.; Protein restriction and progression of chronic kidney disease; UpToDate Online 17.2; 2009.

This may still be a little sketchy...I'm on the way to a meeting. But I hope it helps. Just want us all to be safe and ripped!

Kevin

F/U to my last post...

As you can see, a suggested protein intake of 1.2-1.5 grams/kg lean body weight per day is still far above the recommended amount of intake as suggested in the literature. I wouldn't push beyond that.

But, it's your call...

Kevin

That last one on hyperfiltration was interesting, but here's the problem I always have reading these articles. The first part on protein requirements states ranges for protein intake, but neglects to explain how upward limits were determined. It also fails to elaborate on why going above the suggested limit is dangerous.

The second article even begins stating that the true affects of protein on the kidneys is not yet fully understood, and proposes two theories. Although this provides two possible mechanisms defending the argument that high protein diets can lead to renal problems, there are no details on how this applies to a healthy individual eating that much protein while on an intense workout regime.

I guess what I'm saying is that I see a bunch of studies with little pieces of the puzzle, but no unified evidence for the negative effects of that much protein. I would think something like a field study with a few test groups (bodybuilders, other athletes, and sedentary people) on high protein and normal diets should be doable and much more informative.


P.S. - Kevin, where did you go to med school? I'm applying right now, maybe you can give me some tips.

Like I said, details may be somewhat sketchy, but the people who know about this all advocate being careful with protein. I trust them. The nephrologists I know (one of my partners is married to one) also advocate being careful with protein. Realistically, I'm not sure it makes a dimes' worth of difference to go higher than 1.5 grams/kg, and the data, even if foggy, indicate that higher doses do more harm than good. But, as I've said, it's up to the individual.

I'm a clinical professor of medicine at my alma mater in the Midwest. While I don't currently sit on an interview committee, I am involved in the training of medical students, residents, and fellows and have served in a leadership capacity in three different associations/societies. A nice way of saying that I give time to help others. It allows me the privilege of giving something back to the profession that has given me so much.

A little outside the reach of the forum, so I'll be the good moderator and not go further!